Tuesday, July 21, 2009

Transparency

I'll keep this simple.  Last night I posted several comments to Korn's, "What are you growing?" post.  The main focus was on transparency and taking care not to "move forward" the Obama way, that we needed to understand the boundaries, the lines, and the decision making that goes on here.  Those messages were gone this morning.  If my memory serves me well, Scott replied directly to at least one of them and I do not see that comment either.

All of you have contributed far more than me so I will turn this over to those who have invested far more than myself, but if this is deleted or any comments deleted without explanation...well I guess we'll know what we're really dealing with.

Resist...and then some.

p.s. just noted a new button on my wordpress publishing page that wasn't there before.  seems i have to now "submit for review." so, i guess there is more censoring of material here than i even realized.

42 comments:

  1. Coalition Of The ObviousJuly 21, 2009 at 9:37 AM

    Oldschool,

    Your button has disappeared. Comments off the topic of article are likely rejected.

    Posting for transparency, COTO issues and discussion are for the GUMWALL page. The site is better presented for viewers and interested people and possible new members if they stay on topic.

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  2. the comments i left wereTOTALLY in line with others that were on and still are on that thread.

    who is rejecting and what is the criteria by which those decisions are made? you sign on as coalition of the obvious, but seems coalition of the obvious includes all the members. do all the members have a say or at least understand how the system works here?

    i understand the gumwall concept. the concepts i left were in keeping with the discussion at hand. they were not random thoughts to toss out to the wind.

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  3. regarding korn's post.. the "what are you growing" was not originally about soy beans or watermelons it was about discord and divisiveness and peacemaking. i believe trying to understand things so as to prevent discord is vital to the "growth" of this site. but what do i know i've been accused in the past of being a plant when i've shared opinions that were bizarrely interpreted as threatening to someone pulling the strings around here.

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  4. korn's post is a bridge. Let's get over it. ;-)

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  5. okay cool. you guys are on your own. did fine without me anyway.

    crossing a bridge before the foundation is set isn't all that wise, but be my guest and proceed.

    just remember you've got no business bitching when your comments get deleted with no explanation.

    _______

    "No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

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  6. osa, my comments have been deleted and I wondered why. I almost got upset about it but the moment I tried to delete my account, I discovered it cannot be deleted. Ever. The only way "out" is to discontinue participating. The same applies to many other instances, politically speaking. So I feel like bowing out and giving up but then I see my friend korn building this bridge and I think, yeah, good point and I can comment on that in a way to help us along a path to recovery. So I post a comment, another one from the heart. One step forwards, none back. If I decide to quit altogether any time in the future, I'll simply refrain from participating. But for now, for right now, I still see a reason to provide for a few positive vibes. I won't ever bitch or complain about being censored or monitored or banned. After all, it's not my loss.

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  7. "almost got upset about it but the moment I tried to delete my account, I discovered it cannot be deleted. Ever. The only way “out” is to discontinue participating."





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  8. okay, being banned from a site is upsetting but it's still not my loss. I was banned from OEN e.g. but my account still stands, i.e. I'm still listed as a user and my contributions are all still there with the exception of my very last comment, which was very promptly deleted. I can't go back and delete anything, I've been banned. It still is not my loss. In fact, I progressed as a result. Yes, we all like to let off steam afterwards. I did so as well. Adding this just to keep the records straight and to add more claricy.

    btw, I'm stuck with the dilemma of understanding both sides. I've been admin and I've banned members. I have also signed contracts committing myself to upholding the rules and regs laid out in the contract. I've been a simple user, one who detests censorship of any form. The two can hardly sit down for a cup of tea. It really helps if we can see the other side and understand why some people do the things they do, when they do them.

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  9. excellent! You can never leave. Welcome, to COTO.

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  10. lol curt.. thank you

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  11. but...when people create this site and flock here from another with one of the major complaints being that unilateral, unclear and inconsistent decisions were made and then to turn around and either end up doing the same thing or get treated the same way a serious infraction has occurred. for me and i suspect a few others it's a critical issue.

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  12. Wow...

    Removed your comments because they were "off topic"? Removed my comments as well?

    that is amazing.

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  13. people here are erasing comments that they don't like. You want to "get over it"?

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  14. this is absolutely a critical issue. These angry people that worked hard to try and justify a bad decision... by slandering anyone that didn't agree with them,... now they are still here and erasing comments that they don't like.

    It is cowardly, backhanded, trollish, petty, childish, and desperate.

    It is EXACTLY the same thing that Kall and his editors were doing in Nov of 2008 when I got mad and left Op Ed. it is BEYOND the pale of acceptable blogging behavior. BEYOND THE PALE.

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  15. What you are going to see is a mass exodus of members from this site.

    If you look back on the threads we have been chatting on over the past two days (about the banishment of a member by ONE person... Rady) you will see that MANY members here had a serious problem with that action taken by the one person.

    They then ALL took issue with what that one member did when she herself took off (deleting her threads and countless other comments from regulars and visitors alike).

    You can go back and look at those comments, if they still exist, and see a great number of us took exception to these actions.

    Now we know that comments are being erased and BS excuses for erasing them are being offered up, almost laughingly.

    If you think you will not see a mass exodus of COTO members over this, guess again.

    It's sad. This could have been a good site. This is what happens when one person poisons the well with their own personal agenda; and a few are gullible enough to follow.

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  16. Scott the agitator strikes again.

    I have a good idea who will flee and who will stay. If I'm right, the best of coto will remain and those that use free speech as a shield to hide behind hate will go. Go for it, Scott.

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  17. jerseyg i'm really surprised. from what i could tell you fought tooth and nail about what was apparently happening at another site. now, maybe cuz you're on the other side, the same kind of thing happening here is okay. shame on you.

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  18. Censorship, Nazism and Rob Kallism at its best, eh Rady? Rob taught you well after all...

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  19. Amen! The amazing thing here is that's been demonstrated to a tee how dictatorships happen. Now, if this ain't the US of A in a nutshell, I don't know what is! Ooooh, the hypocrisy of it all...

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  20. Oldschool.. Take a deep breath and try to see it my way for a minute. Yes, I am as strong a free speech advocate as anyone here. however, I agree that people who spew hate & bigotry should be reprimanded.

    That's not what we want to be about is it? Do we want to attract neo nazis? Cause that's what we'll get it if we travel down cinder's road.

    Sorry, but I have always felt that way. Even on oen. We're supposed to be here dissing the nwo and it's minions not the opposite sex or an entire race of people.

    That's so divisive, especially when the people you are dissing are members of coto! As I said to scott. If that's your idea of free speech than you're not coto.

    Let me ask you, do you have respect for a man that refers to women in general as c's? Do you think a man would use that in the company of women if he doesn't have that mindset or atttiude as a way of life? You wouldn't hear that coming from most of the men on this site, I'd bet on it. Why would any woman defend that as free speech?

    Coto is about spreading the word about our country falling to fascism and letting them know who is behind it. Coto is about warning people not to take Baxter's poison potion. Coto is about exposing the "two party system" as a fraud.

    Coto is about shouting that 9/11 is an inside job.

    Coto is about protesting the atrocities of the Israeli govt and the zionist movement, but not calling all jews, liars and thieves.

    Coto is about showing respect for each other and not allowing members to get away with abusive language under the guise of "Free speech. That's the difference between coto and ignorant bigots.

    Coto is about like minded, intelligent people with a common cause. Intelligence and integrity go out when abusive language comes in. I'm not talking about the occasional curse word. I am not offended by that in the least. In fact, I use them myself on occasion.

    Ask yourself what kind of people do we want to attract here? Intelligent, free thinkers who want to exchange ideas and inspire good discussion or neo nazi types that will use any excuse to start a fight and get us thrown off of wordpress?

    It's your decision.. you choose. Are you coto or an imposter?

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  21. jg, my remarks and concerns have absolutely nothing to do with a bigoted commenter. they have everything to do with the integrity of this site. surely you must realize that.

    seems like some people need to go back and review the thread of how they got here.

    like i said to tony, don't go crying when your comments start getting deleted for no legitimate reason or people start making unilateral decisions that you don't agree with. believe me there is no love here from me for cinder. i don't believe you're that shallow to believe that's where this argument lies. who decides what's quality material for this site that sisterbegonia can't get things posted and is routinely critiqued or is sb just lying? why do my comments that were directly related to the rest on a thread, are not even close to violating any terms of agreement get deleted possibly because they hit too close to home to someone of "importance." that's okay with you? really, is that okay with you?

    heads up everyone. disagree with the establishment and you're psyops or a rob kall crony or cia or just a pedestrian troll.

    it's fun being on the other side huh?

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  22. so you determined, barbara, that my deleted comments and scott's were virulent hatred? i didn't write this in support of bigoted remarks. read it again if you need to.

    next time i'll remember to do a screenshot. i seem to remember you suggesting you would do that somewhere else. but if someone feels the need to do that here it's not legitimate? why is that?

    those at the top here are creating a fighting attitude in others by resisting attempts at understanding the workings of the site. i was sincerely looking to establish some transparency so people could feel more comfortable. why are some of you so afraid of that? why are you so threatened. this could have been a really good opportunity and i think you know it.

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  23. okay keep avoiding. i've got no dog in this fight except that i was led to believe this place would be different. it's not so enjoy.

    you ignore my concern about legitimate comments being wiped out and then you "notice" something you say i stated which i didn't. TONY made a comment about not being able to leave the site and i playfully joked about it by embedding the hotel california video. you people take yourselves way too seriously.

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  24. but barbara, you and a few others surely know who has the power to delete comments. could that information not be shared? could someone who deleted my comments stand up and explain it? would you as an administrator be willing to call for the person to do that?

    did you not once say you were going to the other site to do screenshots of deleted comments for proof. that mattered to you just like this matters to me and some others. tell me what's the difference?

    transparency. it's all some are asking for. it's what i thought you cared about too.

    but to start with "LOL" when someone is expressing a sincere concern is mocking at best, combative at worst.

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  25. thank you barbara

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  26. oldschool.. my honest answer is I don't know who is deleting comments but it's not me. I don't delete comments. Until you told me about yours, I had no clue they were gone.

    SB was asked to stop posting so many msm articles without offering her/his own take on them first. That's all. I honestly felt bad for SB about that because I know she/he was only trying to contribute. But it was Rady's job to maintain the content posted and there was so much stuff being put up so quickly that other's articles were disappearing under an avalanche of msm articles. Is that fair to the others that also want to contribute?

    SB can really make me laugh. Would be cool if she/he were to post an article putting that talent to good use.

    We are a group that hates rules but a certain amount of guidelines & self policing are always necessary. We all think we are anarchists but true anarchy is chaos. Do you think it's important to have some sort of decorum so everone gets to have their voice heard? Rady was right to say something, don't you think? What would you have done?

    In fact, a poll was just posted regarding this very subject. Go vote and speak your piece in the comment box ;)

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  27. "It’s your decision.. you choose. Are you coto or an imposter?"

    "Either you're with US or you are with the terrorists..."

    I want to attract the kind of people here who know that they won't be arbitrarily banned by ONE INDIVIDUAL or have their comments erased like Rady was doing under the guise of the "Coalition of the Obvious" member name...

    .... after she QUIT because others here thought she went over the line by banning someone...

    but you go ahead and keep "spinning"...

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  28. the person who ADMITTED to erasing comments was "Coalition of the Obvious"...

    who was that, JerseyG? My guess is it is the same person who quit and removed her articles (99% of them copy and paste of someone else's work) and subsequently COUNTLESS comments and discussions of other members here...

    so, now you know.

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  29. I told you scott, I don't like spinning it makes me dizzy.

    Btw, you're still here, Moses? I thought you were leading the people in the mass exodus?

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  30. jg my honest answer is that i wouldn't have done that unilaterally. not in a forum like this that was built out of the claim that decisions by an elite few were decidedly undemocratic. fascist i believe was the word that was batted about quite a bit.

    as i remarked earlier:

    “No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?”

    and...did it sit well with any of you at the other place (pardon me but i've been attacked here for daring to use the name) if one of the editors, like yourself, responded to such a transgression with a noncommittal blanket statement like "i don't know."

    what members (a percentage would be interesting too) have control of what decisions and what buttons in the control panel? don't we have a right to know that? or should we just not ask questions. you remarked about catholic school and questioning authority. put up jerseygirl. who are the final arbiters, who gets to make decisions like the one you just described? who has the power to take this comment and make it disappear? you, barbara, puddy? does rady still have access to the control panel? she's done damage to the site by removing so much content. could she do more if she wanted to? have the keys been taken away. who among us holds them?

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  31. One more time for the record. I had nothing to do with the banning. That was Rady. Are we clear? ALso, I don't agree with her pulling all her articles & comments when she left. BUT having said that, I understand her reasons for doing it. If you think about it, maybe you can too.

    I have the ability to delete or edit comments. I only use it to correct my own stupid spelling errors. I won't even delete my own, let alone anyone else's. Patrick/Puddy is the administrator of this site. Any other questions, should go directly to him thru email.

    And may I ask a question of you and anyone else who has done nothing but bitch... if YOU had to make sure we all conform to word press' TOS so we don't get thrown the hell out, what would YOUR standards be?

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  32. read my comments again i'm not sitting around bitching about how things are done. i'm wanting to know HOW they are done. i can't believe the resistance i've been getting around it. look i call b/s when i see it. i'm not a big commenter otherwise. i explained my reason for being here from the beginning to gather quality information and distribute it and that's what i've been doing which helps the site by bringing in more readers.

    i haven't been interested in contributing since the first thing i posted which was a left/right media bias article by cindy sheehan caused me to be attacked by none other than rady. she was so damn paranoid i had no interest in contributing much to the conversation because almost everytime i did she attacked me. but no one would know that now unless they have a photographic memory since she deleted all her paranoid rants against me.

    you don't have to repeat countless times that you don't delete comments, but you have some responsibility as someone who has more "power" than the rest to at least support truth and transparency, but you have fought us on that.

    and i will repeat one more time my numerous comments weren't even close to violating any tos and weren't even close to "hijacking" a thread.

    i have a list of questions on the members page. if you don't know the answers to them you might want to ask yourself why you're not even curious.

    question authority here and you get attacked for being a troll, someone who just wants to stir up controversy, cia etc etc. it's happened to me on moer than one occasion and it's the same tactics that are used in places you guys think you're better than.

    and...again where is the comment where you claim i said i wasn't offended by the c word?

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  33. Oldschool... did you read my comment? Have you written to Patrick and asked this question thru email? I am not the administrator. Patrick and Rady were the two administrators. Now Rady is gone and Patrick has this to deal with along with a 60 hour work week. And he does this for free. I don't want that job. Maybe you do.

    Did you answer MY question about how you'd handle the wordpress TOS if YOU were the administrator?

    Not so easy to answer is it? We don't own this site. It's free. We have rules we have to follow or we all get ousted.. What part of this don't you understand?

    Hey, if you can afford to have your own website where people can curse and hurl obscene epitaphs all day long.. go for it. But most of us don't have the $$$ to do that. So we're stuck having to follow certain rules. Now do you get it?

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  34. oldschool.. wanna hear something funny? I went to the members page.. for the first time to read what you posted. And guess what? you can get on the members page but I can't. Apparently I need a password and it doesn't work with my wordpress one.

    Who is the privleged one now? lol

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  35. puddy just explained some of my questions on the member page. again, i am not bitching about how things are done i wanted to know how things worked around here. that's a legitimate concern and you shouldn't be so defensive about it. i NEVER complained about the tos so why are you even asking me how i would do it? don't worry anymore about not answering MY question since you obviously can't without admitting you were wrong to say what you did.

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  36. jg that means nothing. check your email. patrick sent out a password yesterday. if you didn't get it then talk to him about it.

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  37. oldschool .. your questions were answered... now let's move on shall we?

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  38. Hang in there Tony! I'm back for the good fight.

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  39. Hey jersey! I'm back, now we can duke it out in public. I'll be posting a rebuttal in a day or two, then you can have at me then. You take the high road like you're some sorta prima donna. I have little tolerance for bs, and I'm prepared to buck the tide of arrogance, misunderstanding, innuendo, and plain childish behavior. It's easy to beat someone up when they can't fight back. In fact, plain chicken shit in my book.

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  40. Rebuttal? Wow Cinder.. Your arrogance is becoming legend. If taking the high road means calling out a bigot and misogynist then I'm glad I took it.

    You can be mad at certain women and not condemn the whole gender in one blanket statement. You can dislike certain gay people for whatever reason and not be a gay basher. You can despise the Israeli government & the zionist movement but to call ALL jews liars and thieves?

    You mean what you say, don't you? Sorry, those statements prove you are a misogynistic bigot. Own it.

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  41. JG,

    A persdn can like or dislike all dogs, all women, all men, all gays, all trees or whatever he or she likes, but he or she doesn't have to stand up and bray it without expecting some kind of flak from any of such intemporate parties.

    We have much better things to do than eternally scream our opinions at each other.

    Now why don't you kids just shut up with your interminable opinionating and concentrate on more important things?

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  42. Funny you direct your comment to me flak when it was Cinder who addressed me specifically. WHy is that?

    Just for the record, I agree that this crap should end. Enough.

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